Now of Two Cherries, Germany and Robert Larson Company, Inc. San Francisco, USA.
It’s quite shocking to think that a new woodworker might pick this saw from a store and want to cut anything with it let alone try making his or her 1st dovetails. I confes that I could never cut any kind of dovetail with this saw even bad ones. Now here is the problem. Imagine you are 12-years old and some unsuspecting parent or family member knew you were interested in wood. They also knew Two Cherries Germany to have a worldwide reputation for quality woodworking tools and bought this inexpensive saw for a gift. You take the saw and never having used a saw before try cutting a piece of wood with. The saw bounces around even though you exercise great self control, so much so you have to abandon the saw and never work wood again because you are so bad at it you cannot cut a straight line. No one can cut a straight line with a Two Cherries gents saw imported for Robert Larson Company Inc San Francisco and no it’s not you or the wood but the saw. The comparison above is of two cuts made with the same saw, before and after as it were. The cut on the right is the new saw with no reconciling the idiot teeth. The left is after a five minute refinement using my saw sharpening and setting method. Night and day!
For some ridiculous reason idiots at Two Cherries company engineered changes in the shape of good teeth to create a saw that cannot cut and then stamped Professional Quality all over it. On the left we have Two Cherries and on the right reshaped teeth by Tom. Always remember that when you have to put “professional quality” on anything, a red light should go on to tell you that what’s inside the package is not whats stated on the cover. The statement of course is a lie to get you to buy. I suppose they think us idiots and so it’s no wonder we turn to other continents for versions that are not lies. It’s very good for caring companies like Veritas and others. All they have to do is produce an honest well thought through saw, present it honestly and people will buy it.
Now in the case of this saw. The brass back was fine and the steel was fine. The handle was real wood and so Tom field the teeth down to half the height, 13 teeth per inch is a good count. He then created conventional western cut teeth using my method of sharpening and we took some of the very excessive set out with two hammers. Wow! What a difference. Cuts perfectly as you can see from the two comparisons before and after. The saw cost $17 plus a saw file so for around $22 he has a good saw. Still, all of this does make you realise what we are up against with our Global production and people like Home Depot and Robert Larson and Two Cherries who obviously know nothing about working wood.
Here is a close up of the two cuts side by side. Why they did what they did can only be attributed to greed and ignorance, thoughtlessness too.
Soon, Two Cherries, Robert Larson, Nicholson, The Home Depot and many more will likely close and we will wonder why we lost such fine companies. These companies know no loyalty to any person or country and sell jobs to the lowest bidder, take advantage of them and then move on to find cheaper elsewhere. It’s unstoppable and unfathomable that young people cannot be supported and trained to be the next generation of fine tool makers.
8 Comments
Mr. Sellers, I thank you for the info on the poor quality of tools offered in many cases by Home Depot and Lowes. I have noticed for some time it closely resembled some of the junk offered by the bargain basement joints. I suppose I will have to look elsewhere for quality tools. I am new to much of this and hate to start off with inferior tools.
I am building one of your work benches doing it as you recommend all by had with traditional methods. The only variation is that I am configuring it into a knock down status since I give presentations before a variety of groups.
Please keep the reviews on the tools coming. I appreciate the tips.
Glenn Hyatt
Fredericksburg, VA
The quality of cheep tools has always been cheep.. Why should we be shocked when junk tools have been around for century’s The fact is you can buy a good saw from many sources. My Grandfather always told me Evey day he would say these words to me. Never be ashamed or afraid to buy the very best tool and when you do you will buy it once and you will never regret it. I am 50 years old now and watched the great demise of the Small business model in America and yet out of the grass roots several high end tool companies have risen to the front. Companies like Lee Valley and Lie Nelsen tool works and even more, bridge city tool works and yes Bad Axe tool works are just a few. What is sad is the death of long term quality companies like Stanley, And Nichols who could keep our business with ease if they would stop peddling garbage but the name sakes of these tools are long gone and new companies do sell tools and yes they are not cheep but then again good tool have never been cheep tools [email protected]
Lance
While I agree with you on your get what you pay for. It is still a question of do you price your product out of the reach of the average preson. I like many others in this day and age of out sourcing and other issues are not able to spend $300 on a hand plane or $200 on a saw. I live on a low fixed income I bring in less money a month then most bring home in a pay check. And support a wife. So by your logic as I read it ( correct me if I’m wrong) I shouldn’t be doing any wood working because I can’t afford these high dollar tools as you mentioned. Sorry but I don’t think your right. If you have it great do as you please. But some of us have to make hard choices as to how we spend what few dollars we have on our craft. So companies like two cherries Stanley etc who are screwing people like me should out rage you and piss you off to no end. We are not asking for hand made saw that take weeks to make or anything like that we are asking that if we buy your product that it does what it is suppose to do with little touching up from us. Not a complete rework.
Things have not changed too much for the past 30 years. Tage Frid wrote about the poor teeth that were supplied on typical saws of the 1970’s and 1980’s. He would also refile the saw to the way he preferred. Perhaps Robert Larson is doing us a favor by forcing us to sharpen are own (cheap) saws. 🙂
Thank goodness today we at least have several artisanal shops making superlative saws and other tools. They keep the dream alive. I own a small few of those myself, but have bought mostly vintage because I am “cheap” (like Tage Frid used to call himself).
-ScottV
Nailed it.
Years ago when I was in my twenties I needed a 3/8 drill, not having much money I bought it from Sears for about $40. My grandfather and father had Sears “Craftsman” tools so I figured I couldn’t go wrong. This one was not the solid aluminum body but the new plastic style but I figured it would be safer to use. Thirty minutes of use and my drill armature melted and the plastic gears striped.
I ended up tossing my new drill in the garbage after trying to repair it. I went and spent $140 on a new better quality drill, I still have that drill today and it works just as well as the day I bought it. Only later did I find out that Sears was famous for pressuring companies to cheapen their products so they could make more money. People vote with their money, the demise of Sears is a good example of this. I really like two cherries tools, their chisels are top notch. I really hope they wake up and don’t go down the cheap and junky route.
It’s a “buyer beware” market. It’s very tough for a newish woodworker like myself to wade through the garbage. Though I’m relatively new to woodworking, I’m a mechanical design engineer by trade, and also have lots of machine shop experience. I know junk when I see it, but sometimes it’s hard to spot.
To say that Stanley is junk as a blanket statement is not true. I bought a brand new 60 1/2 block plane (Sweat Heart) and with very little massaging it’s a much better tool than I expected. Same with the Sweat Heart chisel set. It fits my budget and is miles ahead of Harbor Freight or Husky brand tools but less than half the price of Lie Nelson stuff. I feel my kids will still have them to use after I’m gone.
Sometimes I buy cheap to get in the game fast. I started with cheap Harbor Freight chisels and coping saw. A $6 purchase gave me the confidence to spend over $100 on a Stanley set. I still use the $8 coping saw. It actually works well.
Thank God that nowadays we have people like Mr. Sellers to show us how to properly sharpen our chisels and flatten the soles of our planes. Something tells me the woodworkers who know have always done this. The ability to share information has never been so great, or so important.
Nothing tastes as bitter as spending money in good faith and getting poor quality in return.
Thanks Paul.
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Mr. Sellers, I thank you for the info on the poor quality of tools offered in many cases by Home Depot and Lowes. I have noticed for some time it closely resembled some of the junk offered by the bargain basement joints. I suppose I will have to look elsewhere for quality tools. I am new to much of this and hate to start off with inferior tools.
I am building one of your work benches doing it as you recommend all by had with traditional methods. The only variation is that I am configuring it into a knock down status since I give presentations before a variety of groups.
Please keep the reviews on the tools coming. I appreciate the tips.
Glenn Hyatt
Fredericksburg, VA
The quality of cheep tools has always been cheep.. Why should we be shocked when junk tools have been around for century’s The fact is you can buy a good saw from many sources. My Grandfather always told me Evey day he would say these words to me. Never be ashamed or afraid to buy the very best tool and when you do you will buy it once and you will never regret it. I am 50 years old now and watched the great demise of the Small business model in America and yet out of the grass roots several high end tool companies have risen to the front. Companies like Lee Valley and Lie Nelsen tool works and even more, bridge city tool works and yes Bad Axe tool works are just a few. What is sad is the death of long term quality companies like Stanley, And Nichols who could keep our business with ease if they would stop peddling garbage but the name sakes of these tools are long gone and new companies do sell tools and yes they are not cheep but then again good tool have never been cheep tools [email protected]
Lance
While I agree with you on your get what you pay for. It is still a question of do you price your product out of the reach of the average preson. I like many others in this day and age of out sourcing and other issues are not able to spend $300 on a hand plane or $200 on a saw. I live on a low fixed income I bring in less money a month then most bring home in a pay check. And support a wife. So by your logic as I read it ( correct me if I’m wrong) I shouldn’t be doing any wood working because I can’t afford these high dollar tools as you mentioned. Sorry but I don’t think your right. If you have it great do as you please. But some of us have to make hard choices as to how we spend what few dollars we have on our craft. So companies like two cherries Stanley etc who are screwing people like me should out rage you and piss you off to no end. We are not asking for hand made saw that take weeks to make or anything like that we are asking that if we buy your product that it does what it is suppose to do with little touching up from us. Not a complete rework.
Things have not changed too much for the past 30 years. Tage Frid wrote about the poor teeth that were supplied on typical saws of the 1970’s and 1980’s. He would also refile the saw to the way he preferred. Perhaps Robert Larson is doing us a favor by forcing us to sharpen are own (cheap) saws. 🙂
Thank goodness today we at least have several artisanal shops making superlative saws and other tools. They keep the dream alive. I own a small few of those myself, but have bought mostly vintage because I am “cheap” (like Tage Frid used to call himself).
-ScottV
Nailed it.
Years ago when I was in my twenties I needed a 3/8 drill, not having much money I bought it from Sears for about $40. My grandfather and father had Sears “Craftsman” tools so I figured I couldn’t go wrong. This one was not the solid aluminum body but the new plastic style but I figured it would be safer to use. Thirty minutes of use and my drill armature melted and the plastic gears striped.
I ended up tossing my new drill in the garbage after trying to repair it. I went and spent $140 on a new better quality drill, I still have that drill today and it works just as well as the day I bought it. Only later did I find out that Sears was famous for pressuring companies to cheapen their products so they could make more money. People vote with their money, the demise of Sears is a good example of this. I really like two cherries tools, their chisels are top notch. I really hope they wake up and don’t go down the cheap and junky route.
It’s a “buyer beware” market. It’s very tough for a newish woodworker like myself to wade through the garbage. Though I’m relatively new to woodworking, I’m a mechanical design engineer by trade, and also have lots of machine shop experience. I know junk when I see it, but sometimes it’s hard to spot.
To say that Stanley is junk as a blanket statement is not true. I bought a brand new 60 1/2 block plane (Sweat Heart) and with very little massaging it’s a much better tool than I expected. Same with the Sweat Heart chisel set. It fits my budget and is miles ahead of Harbor Freight or Husky brand tools but less than half the price of Lie Nelson stuff. I feel my kids will still have them to use after I’m gone.
Sometimes I buy cheap to get in the game fast. I started with cheap Harbor Freight chisels and coping saw. A $6 purchase gave me the confidence to spend over $100 on a Stanley set. I still use the $8 coping saw. It actually works well.
Thank God that nowadays we have people like Mr. Sellers to show us how to properly sharpen our chisels and flatten the soles of our planes. Something tells me the woodworkers who know have always done this. The ability to share information has never been so great, or so important.
Nothing tastes as bitter as spending money in good faith and getting poor quality in return.
Thanks Paul.